View Full Version : 4.9 Caddy Fiero Transplant
Well the weather is finally cooling off so I'm starting my Fiero engine swap. Anyone interested in hanging out and turning wrenches is welcome.
The specifics of the swap are pretty straight forward. This weekend I will start dressing the engine for installation and am also planning on pulling 2.8 V6 out finally. I'll need a bit of help with that actually since the body has to be lifted off the subframe for removal.
The engine I am swapping in is a 4.9 Cadillac V8 OHV engine (NOT a Northstar) as well as the 4T60e tranny that was stock in the Cadillac. The engine should make about 225hp and 280ft/tq in this trim. The end product is a Fiero that runs 13.9's and gets 27mpg. This is without any internal mods to the motor. The car should be a great stop light brawler though it will run out of steam during a 1/4 mile run. It's much better in the 1/8th than the 1/4 since the heads don't breath very well and have pretty small ports.
A 75 horse shot of nitrous will put the car well into the low 13's.
Again, anyone that's interested in lending a hand drop me a line!!
z28_Sprayin
08-30-2007, 11:11 AM
hey man, i'm down, i've gotta work this weekend, but monday and tuesday i'm off if ya wanna work on it after work or something those days...
novajoe
08-30-2007, 03:29 PM
Give me a call
grn95t/a
08-30-2007, 05:32 PM
why not a small block chebby? just curious on the choice of power plant?
The 4.9 swap does not give as much power as the 350 but its also a bolt in with minor modifications to the subframe. This swap can be done for about $1000 and it would take more than that just to get the kit for installing the 350. Also the 4.9 is aluminum block and heads and is almost identical in weight to the 2.8 that was in the car originally. Its not going to be a real brawler but with 275ft/lbs of torque it should move pretty decent. It won't make enough power to break stuff and should still handle well. Its a common swap in the Fiero community. I got the motor, tranny, computer and harness for $250.00 because they are not performance motors and basically people are **** near giving them away.
grn95t/a
08-30-2007, 07:09 PM
hell yes! works for me!! just never heard of it being done with the 4.9, but with the cost and ease of it you would be crazy not to. imagine the looks on the faces of the unexpecting fools at the stop lights! lol!
AK_fbody
08-30-2007, 07:16 PM
I've got some nitrous parts if you're interested. Let me know Jazz. If I can get the car done in time ill swing by, ill call ya.
For those curious about what is required to do this swap. This web site has a lot of information on it. Its basically a step by step of how to...
http://www.fieroaddiction.com/caddy49a.html
novajoe
09-02-2007, 02:26 PM
Chris is it still on for monday? maybe post up the address so everyone can find your place.
I plan on being there.
AK_fbody
09-02-2007, 02:39 PM
What's going on monday? I got the car done finally.
novajoe
09-02-2007, 02:56 PM
Just a little wrench turning
thats all
Anyone interested just show up around 12:00.
1 Cherbourg Drive Drive, Newport News, 23606
socalmach
09-02-2007, 04:45 PM
I should be there.
novajoe
09-02-2007, 05:34 PM
I will be there
Yeah, on for Monday! The plan is to get the old motor out of the car so I can start preping the subframe for the new one. Its going to take a few weeks to get things sorted out so it can be bolted back in.
Thanks in advance for the help and motivation!
Wrenching on the Fiero again on Sunday if anyone wants to hang out. Burgers and Dogs on the grill. Anyone for a beer???
novajoe
09-14-2007, 11:08 AM
What work is beeing done?
socalmach
09-14-2007, 07:35 PM
There will ribs on the grill too.
They will be good.
Keminkdj
09-15-2007, 02:42 AM
dude, where are u at?? i have nothing to do i'll come.. broken hand and all!!!
In Newport News, right now I'm pretty lame. Headed to the doctor with a busted foot. Hope I can still work on Sunday tho.
novajoe
09-15-2007, 09:29 AM
The more the merrier. I will be there with my broke wallet!
Keminkdj
09-15-2007, 10:09 AM
i need directions/address... maybe i can get some help on my car whilewhere there?? i need my belts replaced and my fog light removed
Address is 1 cherbourg drive in Newport News
from Norfolk take 64 to J Clyde, second J Clyde exit, J Clyde south to Warwick, right on Warwick, Warwick to Deep Creek. Left on Deep Creek, Right on Church, 1st Left on Lynchburg the Left on Cherbourg. House is at the end on the Cul de Sac. 757-621-4061
socalmach
09-15-2007, 11:26 PM
Dave, I'll be at the Comissary across from Norfolk base at 9:15 if you want to meet up there.
Keminkdj
09-16-2007, 03:44 AM
Dave, I'll be at the Comissary across from Norfolk base at 9:15 if you want to meet up there.
9:15, sounds good. gimme a call if i'm not there 7578176711
Keminkdj
09-16-2007, 08:39 PM
had good food, had good time. ya'll missed out... i kinda got lost comming home tho... first time taking monitor merrimac... but i got to race joe's s-10, haha
novajoe
09-16-2007, 09:30 PM
I let you win! LOL We got a lot of work done too.
Lower ball joints and poly bushing on order today. Going to replace the lower control arm bushings with poly. Might as well as long as its out of the car. Putting a fresh coat of black on the subframe some time this week. :)
Progress :)
novajoe
09-17-2007, 04:34 PM
Give me a ring and I will see if I can do a little
Smoke Panther
09-17-2007, 06:25 PM
****, looks like i missed a party...if there's anything left to be done, let me know
Dude, this is a major swap and rebuild. There's still PLENTY of mods left to do before the motor even goes in the car. Full rebuild of the rear suspension with coil over shocks and poly bushing everywhere. Always room for more hands turning wrenches!
Keminkdj
09-17-2007, 10:25 PM
even if i have a broken hand, i can still wash hands, haha! i did have fun tho.. first time meeting all of u (except don) and u guys are cool.. nice to actually meet people with the same intrests as me. I think the best night was when don said "aren't we supposed to be watching football like everyone else?" so we watched pinks instead, haha, fun times!
Poly bushing kit and rear lower ball joints showed up today :)
Keminkdj
09-20-2007, 08:41 PM
exciting. get them on. i saw a pic of some hand made headers... didnt look so hard.. maybe u should do that, chris...
novajoe
09-21-2007, 07:17 AM
I think the new intake would kick @$$! Ram air with a turbo = massive torque.
Looks like I'll be in the garage Saturday and Sunday this weekend...
Smoke Panther
09-22-2007, 08:31 AM
like, today and tomorrow? I can turn some wrenches from about noon till 7ish today..dunno about tomorrow
Headed out to the garage right now...
Keminkdj
09-22-2007, 01:23 PM
i'm at work this weekend. :(
Smoke Panther
09-24-2007, 11:22 PM
sorry i couldn't make it out there over the weekend, Chris...sucks when you think you're free, but in actuallity, you've got alot of work to do that you've just been putting off :[
Picked up an Cadillac Allante lower intake manifold. Cheap horsepower, should be worth 20hp over stock....
Keminkdj
09-24-2007, 11:38 PM
sorry i couldn't make it out there over the weekend, Chris...sucks when you think you're free, but in actuallity, you've got alot of work to do that you've just been putting off :[
slash drinking with all yer buddies
Keminkdj
09-24-2007, 11:41 PM
Picked up an Cadillac Allante lower intake manifold. Cheap horsepower, should be worth 20hp over stock....
will it fit over the stock maniford? thatd be f'n sweet!! What bout this turbo chris?? we really want to see it put on........
Right now the turbo is on hold since I need to know how much HP I can get without it first. I will be building another engine after this one is running and that one is more likely to see a turbo.
Current plan. Allante lower intake with customer upper ram air style box. The box will have 8 velocity stacks in it which will be visible since the top of the box will be clear. The intent is to give the look of downdraft webers under a clear cover for that, wow effect when the hood is off. Should look bad ass and very likely the hood will be cut to show this off even when the hood is on the car.
So, the project continues to develop as any customized car usually does. I'm looking to get 300hp from the motor and another 100 from nitrous which should make this a 12 second car without a turbo. That's plenty fast... The turbo would come later and would only be 5psi or so which would be worth about 80 to 100 hp. It important that I figure out how to make the engine breath first though... intake, cam, heads....
Keminkdj
09-25-2007, 11:35 AM
thats a thing of beauty chris.
so what your telling me is.. your building a Ferrari F355 pretty much :)
Actually I'm rebadging the car as a Cadillac. If you're not familiar with the Cadillac Cien here's a photo.
http://www.justinssite.com/images/Cadillac_Cien_Concept_3.jpg
I'll be putting this front end on http://www.normsfiberglass.com/Tiltfrontendclips.html but with chrome trim on the front of the car. It will also get large side ducts similar to the Cien along with Cadillac emblems throughout of course. So, keeping it domestic....
Cadillac Powered Baby!!!
novajoe
09-25-2007, 03:13 PM
Right now the turbo is on hold since I need to know how much HP I can get without it first. I will be building another engine after this one is running and that one is more likely to see a turbo.
Current plan. Allante lower intake with customer upper ram air style box. The box will have 8 velocity stacks in it which will be visible since the top of the box will be clear. The intent is to give the look of downdraft webers under a clear cover for that, wow effect when the hood is off. Should look bad ass and very likely the hood will be cut to show this off even when the hood is on the car.
So, the project continues to develop as any customized car usually does. I'm looking to get 300hp from the motor and another 100 from nitrous which should make this a 12 second car without a turbo. That's plenty fast... The turbo would come later and would only be 5psi or so which would be worth about 80 to 100 hp. It important that I figure out how to make the engine breath first though... intake, cam, heads....
It's only money! Thae car will be more fun to play with than a dollar bill LOL!
The engine is on the craddle. Axels on order tomorrow. Should be ready to reinstall in 2 weeks!
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r298/chrisbracey/0922071802.jpg
Probably 2 more weeks at least for the coolant and other lines. 2 weeks to do the engine wiring. 1 week to do the tranny wiring. So total it should take about 6 months :)
Keminkdj
09-27-2007, 05:30 PM
chris that front end is nasty.
Not sure I'll have enough cash to do the front end next year. The bills for this project are really adding up, especially since I'm completely rebuilding the suspension. I guess its go before show in this case even though I'm also working to do this as sexy as possible :)
novajoe
09-28-2007, 10:06 AM
I agree go before show and like all good projects is it ever realy done?
The big brown Santa Claus has been to my house yet again. Every bushing in the rear of the car will be poly, including the craddle mounts. New struts on order this week. I will be doing the coil over conversion in 2 weeks if anyone is interested in hanging out. (KYB struts converted to coil overs)
novajoe
10-03-2007, 07:00 PM
:PiCS:
ha ha ha!
Okay, so Joe came over and we got some more work done on Frankenfiero yesterday. Axels are on, and coil overs are temp fitted. I'll be getting the engine installed this week to check clearances. It's all going to have to come back out eventual, but it needs to be check of course. Anyway, here's a pic of the engine assembly ready to bolt in.
Those coil overs look pretty sweet!
novajoe
12-10-2007, 11:16 AM
Someone needs to photo shop a turbo on there
If you think what I'm doing here is cool check out this Northstar!
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087315-3.html
novajoe
12-10-2007, 06:04 PM
Very nice IR setup
Well, looks like its time for a test fit.. Fits really nicely in the engine bay. Plenty of room and looks completely factory. Did forget to put in the spacers on the top of the shocks so I have a bit of a clearance problem with the struts ends hitting the deck lid, but the engine clears the deck lid, no problem!
I also decided to do a test fit of the spoiler. Yes, looks a little rice I know but I doubt anyone would deny that its probably necessary on this car and not just for looks....
Now the real work, fabricating all the hoses and harnesses. Once that's done the engine will come back out and be cleaned and the engine bay will get paint.
:cheers:
blazin_slp_z28
12-23-2007, 09:09 AM
lookin good, cept for that rice thing. why not use a factory spoiler? that one just doesn't fit with the smooth round curves of the body style.
grn95t/a
12-23-2007, 10:50 AM
:agree: yes ditch the ricer wing and you get a better sleeper look!
The_rabbit1
12-23-2007, 05:49 PM
:agree: yes ditch the ricer wing and you get a better sleeper look!
or just put a couple ricer stickers so it looks like you didnt actually spend money on the drivetrain, until you changed the panels out.
http://pages.prodigy.net/dbagwell1/images/dl10-5.jpg
socalmach
12-23-2007, 07:12 PM
Looks good.
Those springs look much better.
Actually the wing really looks better in person and the factory wing is completely useless. Besides, I'm expecting that ricer wing is gonna lure in a LOT of SUCKERS.... I'm not even worried about being a sleeper 'cause with 5 liters, 8psi and a 75 horse shot of spray... bring it :)
novajoe
12-30-2007, 01:56 PM
You need to fire it off before you can get any suckers!
I'm not sure about the wing but I KNOW my previous Fiero wasn't very fast and still felt like it was going to take flight half the time. I'm more interested in keeping it on the ground (especially in the corners) than the look. Remember those wings were originally designed for what I'm using it for, not the rear end of a Civic.
So, I'm hoping to get back to work on the Fiero in a few weeks. I've got one major decision to make engine wise however. I can go with the turbocharged setup that I've been considering or I can go with a bigger cam and slightly higher rev setup. The bigger cam would get me into the 230 hp range while the turbo would put me in the 300-325 hp range. The turbo would also add around 50-100 lbs and a lot a bit of complexity. For straight line racing I'd be straying the car with about 125 hp of NOS if I don't do the turbo or about 50hp if I do the turbo. The turbo would be limited to about 6 to 8 psi boost due to the compression ratio of the motor. The motor is iron head and a sleeved iron block so its a pretty good setup for boosting or spraying.
I'm really not sure which way I'm intending to go at this point. More horsepower is almost always better right? I'm not really sure on this one since I'm intending the car to be more an autocrosser than anything else and while doing that the turbocharger would likely never come into play and might also make the car a bit more difficult to drive with boost lag etc. The tube of choice is a Holset HX-40 btw. Its commonly used by import guys to make about 350hp and should be well suited for the engine.
Always like to get some input. What do you guys think?
novajoe
01-04-2008, 12:41 PM
Well it all comes down to power to weight ratio and in what range you make your power.
Here's some additional information. Its for a bone stock 4.9 in a Fiero with a 5 speed. Note that the car runs 14.2's in the quarter with only about 160hp to the rear tire. With the turbocharger it would be in the low to mid 12's.
Note, that hp and torque is about the same as a 305 TPI in stock trim (1991 305 Iroc) so its not as bad as it might look. The turbo would really wake things up though and its looking more and more like I'll be going that route.
blazin_slp_z28
01-04-2008, 03:15 PM
do a pro-charger instead....instant power with no lag....
grn95t/a
01-04-2008, 03:16 PM
cam it for the autocross, spray it at the track.
I already have the turbo. Its an HX-40. I don't really have the cash for a procharger (unless someone has a spare laying around). Packaging the turbocharger is easier since there is no kit for the Procharger or any other supercharger for that matter.
The Fiero forum guys are in favor of turbo with alcohol injection over cam and more nitrous. Doesn't sound like a bad plan since the other guy who built that combo ran 12.51 with no other power adders. Here's the timeslip.
So, all the votes are in. Looks like its going turbocharged. 8psi boost and a 50hp shot of nitrous. Looks like I'm going to be broke forever, at least I'm depriving my children (my cars fool - I can't afford human kids)
novajoe
01-08-2008, 11:44 AM
Yea we all have our addictions!
Hoowasat
01-08-2008, 08:17 PM
Jazz - A member here posted info about this site over on Pennock's Fiero Forum when asking if any Fiero owners were located in VA. Well, I'm located in NN about 5 blocks from you (on Lynchburg Dr.), and I'm installing a Northstar in my Fiero. You can find my car easy 'cause it's sitting out front in the driveway, and it's sporting a GT40 body. <Ken>
Actually I've seen it when I was taking a walk about 6 months ago. Glad to have some a new member, especially one that lives right down the street. Come by this weekend or whenever! I'll PM you my cell number... Cheers bro!
novajoe
01-09-2008, 10:10 AM
Glad to see another member that turns wrenches!
Saxman
01-09-2008, 11:35 AM
Jazz - A member here posted info about this site over on Pennock's Fiero Forum when asking if any Fiero owners were located in VA. Well, I'm located in NN about 5 blocks from you (on Lynchburg Dr.), and I'm installing a Northstar in my Fiero. You can find my car easy 'cause it's sitting out front in the driveway, and it's sporting a GT40 body. <Ken>
Say, where did the GT40 kit come from. I'd love to do one of those one day.
novajoe
01-09-2008, 05:59 PM
Hey Saxman what V8 did you put in your fieros?
Hoowasat
01-09-2008, 06:01 PM
Say, where did the GT40 kit come from. I'd love to do one of those one day.
My GT40 "rebody" kit was bought from NAF (North American Fiberglass) back in 1989. Their named changed to ASPP, and I think it's back to NAF now. The owner, Jack Kube, doesn't advertise because his full-time business is (or was ... may be retired now) building Cobra kits, and he has never really needed to advertise. Word-of-mouth moved a lot of his stuff. A buddy of mine built a 427 Cobra using an NAF kit.
My car was used as an ASPP show car (when it was shiney-red) at a couple kit car shows in Carlisle, PA back in the mid-90s. Even if you're not into kit cars, but looking for Fiero performance goodies, that is a great show to attend & buy stuff. I believe it's May 16th thru 18th this year.
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